Questions regarding Tax form 4361

Hi, I came across your website while searching questions regarding form 4361. I have a question about section 4 and 5. I am ordained through 1 organization and employed for another. And section 5, I was ordained 1-13-2010 and never really took an income from my church until where I currently work now starting in 2013 so I can’t put 2 years down for the $400 + income. Will that cause a decline in my request for Social Security exemption?

Rev. Jason
Administration/Youth Pastor
Celebration First Assembly of God
Hi Jason:

Thanks for the email! From what you’ve told me, your request for Social Security exemption should be approved. Yes, the wording of the Form 4361 can be a little tricky, but the math is simple. So let’s do the math! 🙂

Question number 3 of the Form 4361………you were ordained on January 13, 2010.
Question number 4……….this would be the organization where the ordination took place in 2010. It would be the “1 organization” that you talked about in your question.

Question number 5….this is where the math comes in:

In 2010, how much self-employed MINISTRY income did you make? Is it less than $400?
In 2011, how much self-employed MINISTRY income did you make? Is it less than $400?
In 2012, same questions?

IF you made less than $400 in self-employed ministry income in 2010 and 2011, you are still eligible to apply for the exemption.

From your email, I would make the assumption that you didn’t have MINISTRY income until you started at your present organization in 2013. From what you have told me so far, you would be eligible for Social Security exemption.

The key is how much self-employed MINISTRY income you made in 2010, 2011 and 2012. If it is under $400, than the years you would write on the Form 4361 would be 2013 and 2014.

Here’s the IRS verbiage:

When to file. File Form 4361 by the due date,
including extensions, of your tax return for the
second tax year in which you had at least $400
of net earnings from self-employment, any of
which came from ministerial services.

Hope that clears it up. If not, call me at 970-817-5419 and I’ll talk you thru it. There is no charge for an initial consultation.

Be of Good Cheer,
Bill Daknis, EA
The Pastor’s Tax Man

Daknis Tax Service for Ministers
3375-B Saratoga Street
Wellington, CO 80549